Better Soccer Coaching / Better Soccer Coaching / The Dug-Out / Playing Up a Year / Latest Posts

RE: Playing Up a Year

Duncan Edwards — Fri, 30 Apr 2010 06:01:47 GMT

One of my favourite topics! And an easy answer right? Well if life was black and white.

Every players need to play at the top level for their ability. How do you judge that? The truth is, if a player is playing up they should be in the core/top (11) players. Not sitting on the pine 16th, 17th etc. Spoon feeding them playing time does them no good. If they're not "starters", they're better off playing at their own age group eating up maximum playing time on the ball, getting better, finding enjoyment, fulfillment and the just rewards.

Now this is a real problem at the clubs where the "tail wags the dog". The player is the team's (coach's) player and not the club's. Of course you're expecting the club has the appropriate and qualified personnel in place at Club Head Technical Coach.

RE: Playing Up a Year

simon Fryer — Sat, 06 Mar 2010 22:57:03 GMT

well I dont know what happened but he never showed up to my training session, so I never got the chance to have a look at him, we are holding a 24hr football marathon to raise some money for the club and for charity this weekend, so I am hoping that I can take a look at him then.

RE: Playing Up a Year

swift1 — Mon, 01 Mar 2010 16:08:15 GMT

I think its difficult for anyone to give proper advice as only you know the child with his build and mentaility etc so its wrong for anyone to flatly say "he's too young". Every case like this has to be judged on individual merit and someone (usually the coach and parents) has to make a call and decide what they think is best.

Lots of players who have made the grade proffesionally played a year or two above their age groups and it never did them any harm in the same way as youngsters we all played matches with/against the "big kids" so to speak and again i think it benefits more than hinders if the player is considered good enough. If he wasnt deemed good enough you wouldnt even be considering it so i would give him a go, if he enjoys it and blossoms then i cant see how anyone could advise against it.

RE: Playing Up a Year

simon Fryer — Fri, 26 Feb 2010 22:48:47 GMT

I manage u7s and u8s at the same time,and have just been asked to tak an u 6 into my group as at u 6 level he is so advanced that it is looking like he is 2 or 3 years above himself. He is constantly scoring loads of goals in their mini matches and is finding it both to easy and boring. I agreed to have a look at him next week and see if he is not good enough, but strong enoughand mature enough to play with the u8s. Normally I wouldnt play any child up 2 age groups, but I dont have much choice as u7s and u8s train together. In my mind I dont want the player to get bored with football and leave the game, but I do worry about his maturity. I will let you guys know how he gets on.

simon

RE: Playing Up a Year

scarlets — Thu, 25 Feb 2010 22:47:29 GMT

I believe that it all depends on the child,they can normally handle it if they play a lot with older brothers and sisters,my 6 year old is now in a pre-academy under 7s squad and can hold his own because he has an older brother.

If anyone fancies an under 6 game in South Wales get in touch!

Cheers

Rich

RE: Playing Up a Year

swift1 — Mon, 04 Jan 2010 10:45:38 GMT

I would like to think as experinced coaches we would put any of your concerns into consideration before even contemplating putting a player in an older age group.

RE: Playing Up a Year

GTQ — Thu, 31 Dec 2009 17:02:22 GMT

No-one has mentioned the welfare of any child who is played in an age group above the child's age. Has the world gone mad?

Before any football considerations, we coaches should be wary of injuries to our young charges. Kids experience growth spurts at differing intervals and during such spurts young players become more susceptible to injury as their skeletal bone growth out-grows the speed of lengthening of the soft tissue comprising muscle, ligaments etc. This situation is exacerbated by the potentially great difference in physiques between age groups.

Coaches have a duty of care to youngsters under their wing. My own club will not allow players to play above their age group under any circumstances. If a parent cannot accept this ruling then they are asked to remove their child from the club.

Child first - football second!

GTQ

RE: Playing Up a Year

dufeu58 — Sat, 22 Aug 2009 15:56:34 GMT

I think you need to look at the situation instead of trying to make a rule. If the player is head and shoulders above the ability of the team, then it might be in his/her best interest to move up and be challenged more, especially when it is also a size issue. Being the best on a younger team doesn't always help a players development or ego. Having said that a player who is moved up also has to be 'checked' ego wise, and kept humble. I think instead of making a blanket rule, one has to think about the development of the player, since isn't that we are all supposed to be doing as coaches. Yes it might hurt the younger team, or perhaps help the older team, and yes it might displace an older player less talented player, but I think without doing it the talented player is not being given the opportunity to develop to the best of his ability. Taking the best player away from the younger team, allows other to step up and develop even if the team might not be as successful, so I don't buy the excuse of hurting the team. I think the question a club should be asking is "Are we developing players or teams?"

RE: Playing Up a Year

9606jma49 — Fri, 21 Aug 2009 17:25:14 GMT

Wow some good opinions. I'm new here too, currently coaching house league ages 6/7. I've been asked to coach the u8 developmental team next summer, for which I've just held my first training camp. I've seen all the players in the house league and have a good idea of who will be picked to represent the club; but I have a couple of parents asking to have a 6yr old, Billy (turning 7 next summer) to come to camp, where [u]they[/u] expect he will make the team. He's good, and his skills are good enough to make the team; however, once you get past the best 8 players, the skill level of all the other kids evens out.
My position is that Billy will be eligible to play the following season and should be the most dominant player then. Is it prudent then to not select him this year so as not to drop an eligible 7yr old who may just be a little slower in his/her development. (note: we will be training all winter long to get everyone "up to speed"). Or is this a survival of the fittest situation where, too bad if the older kids can't keep up with Billy; and why should I be holding him back. (I personally don't think I'd be holding him back at this age, but that sentiment has been mentioned to me)
As an earlier reply stated, I think he will benefit from staying at his age, gaining confidence, and leadership skills which in my opinion lacks as these kids mature.
Complicating matters, I've invited 4 girls to camp because they too have potential. Two could make the team.(one for sure). This has always been traditionally an all boys team. So if one or two of the girls are chosen, and not Billy, have I again take away opportunities for other eligible players? (Perhaps this is question is for another forum)
Thanks in advance to anyone who can reply....

RE: Playing Up a Year

karlmort — Fri, 21 Aug 2009 14:01:11 GMT

Hi, i'm new here. I'm coach for two teams in my club (in norway). Girls9 and Boys13.

I've been very positive to playing one year up, but after reading the posts in this thread I guess I'm more aware that it has it's pros and cons.

My daughter (9 yrs old) played with girls 8 and 9 and boys 7 and 8 at "football school" last week. Being the "best" on the field gave her the opportunity to grow confidence. Being able to make moves, pass opponents and score goals "easily" was what she needed. Now she's also doing much of the same on the regular training (girls 9, where I'm a coach).

So playing "down" can be as good sometimes as playing up.

Karl

RE: Playing Up a Year

moanywish4justice — Mon, 06 Apr 2009 07:55:03 GMT

as i have said on another post, my youngest boy daniel,has been playing at u9s in the johnstone league in scotland ,for the past 1yr and half. HE IS 7 YRS OLD AND WILL BE 8 IN OCT 09.there is also 3 other boys in the team at 8 .

although these boys are now so confident and learning fast, the age difference even this season is noticeable.they need to progress at their correct age level........ i know of a school janitor who has a kid, always played at higher age level because of timing of his schooling age,the boy stood out until he reached 11 a side age (under12 s).then height,strength and stamina was needed just as much as skill.

this next season our under 9s have to move up to under 10s,so another (ex player lol) parent and myself want to keep the younger boys at the "correct" age level. also waiting, are all the kids in their school at 8 and under who want so much to play football for a TEAM, i cant wait....

this site, which i discovered just yesterday ,is amazing .....keep up the gr8 work guys the future cryffs are under our noses ......and baxter ...law ....souness.....dalgleish ...lol

RE: Playing Up a Year

Tyler E. Linn Soccer — Tue, 17 Mar 2009 08:22:25 GMT

I feel that coaches should decide on what is best for player development if the group/player is talented. What is best in conjunction with local competition for competitive exposure. If the competition is not available within the local age group, a coach must work with local leagues and coaches to set up friendlies or matches that push the level of the team in training. Coaches should also look for more competitive travel tournaments that are near closer to their level IN their own age group. I agree with keeping the level challenging, within a range of physical safety for the players.

I have also found that its good to set up friendlies with younger boys teams vs. older girls teams. For example a u13 boys team vs a U15 girls team works nicely to improve the both teams equally. The Bigger girls challenge the boys physical play, and the boys challenge the girls athleticism. These types of "playing up" add to the overall progression and development of the talented players.

I also agree with holding teams in a bracket of a lower age group. Some developmental teams/players need to gain dominance and confidence by playing younger yet competitive teams. Sometimes an age group is too competitive and stifles the development of potential late bloomers. Each experience is important and adds to the local level eventually. Perhaps some of them turn out to be Referees in your area. Your influence and emphasis on giving the right competition for each skilled level is important to the general development in the area, thus producing better players overall.

Playing up is bad if it is used as a steroid for player development thinking it will make them better. Placing an average player on an older team can create confidence issues, fear, or general decline to frustration.

U10- U11, U11 - U12, U12-U14, U13-U15, U14-U15, U15-U16, U16-U18 These are some recommended playing up age groupings within the safe competitive and physically developed teams that are gender based.

These are recommended grouping for cross gender matching. U10b-U11/U12g, U11b-U12/U13g, U12b-U13/14/15g, U13b-U14/15g, U14b- U15/16g, U15b-u17/18g

RE: Playing Up a Year

Noli — Sun, 08 Mar 2009 10:25:57 GMT

Generally it shouldnt happen,it stops disagreements in clubs from happening before theyve even started,it means its just a no go.
Lads will want to play as much football as possible, but its looking after them to stop them burning out and also keeps the team together and good team spirit,for example i coach u14s and i have lads that are potentially good enough to play u16s and youths but they need to learn the whole game, instead of jumping thru there building blocks,this way even if they are still playing at 19/20 they will be more rounded players

RE: Playing Up a Year

JamesWelsh — Wed, 11 Feb 2009 15:55:32 GMT

I dont agree with local clubs playing players up age groups and many parents dont realise they may well be harming the chances and the child getting pick up by a professional club.

I also feel that at local clubs the care and coaching quality is good enough to make sure the best is done for the player.

I have been a pro clubs where players are moved up age groups and this is done at the right time and for the right reasons but most spend a short period of time with the older group and still are kept in the loop with the younger age group.

RE: Playing Up a Year

swift1 — Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:44:33 GMT

As a manager i found it very frustrating when older age groups cherry picked your players especially when the older sides were not generally any better in standard they simply were a year older.

I dont think if the player is physically ready to play at an older age it will have too much of a negative effect on the individual on the contrary it can in some cases benefit them but from the view point of a younger teams players being removed it certainly can slow down the progress of the side. Especially if the players come and go into your squad and then its not fair on the ones who are always there and are being rotated.

We used to a play side from when we were under 13's upwards who had four county rugby players, one of them literally looked atleast 18 at 13, and i wished he had been put into an older age group to save us from the humiliation he put on us game after game! He once scored a hat trick against us all from corners all with headers and all WITHOUT even jumping!!

RE: Playing Up a Year

wontothreeforfive — Sun, 11 Jan 2009 14:37:08 GMT

I wholeheartedly agree that younger players should not play up, especially when so many are doing it.

It is my philosophy, and I recommend this to my parents & players (as well as applying it to my own kids), that kids should have their opportunity to be the "big kid" on the field. I think that they will be able to play better and even excel with kids their own age and gain more confidence that way than they would by trying to keep up with older kids.

By staying with kids their own age, even the best players have benefitted by taking on leadership roles on the team and by being looked up to by their peers. To me, this is an intrinsical aspect to developing a better and more well-rounded player.

It is not only the skill--but the continual development of leadership & confidence that make better players.

RE: Playing Up a Year

Shadybhoy — Fri, 28 Nov 2008 20:53:13 GMT

we've a policy at my club that you have to try out with your proper age group first but my also tryout for an older age group too. the only way you're able to play up is if you are picked as a top 5 player on the older team.

RE: Playing Up a Year

Tom Gass — Thu, 20 Nov 2008 22:06:13 GMT

I played my whole team up this year. We were scheduled to play U10 but played U11 instead. This meant that we played a 9 v 9 configuration. The reasons were multiple. All the premier teams have started what they call developmental teams which are 9 year olds and below playing at a U11 level. The reasons are again many. Part of it is to just start kids younger getting better coaching. The other is financial. The earlier you can hook them the better. I had 6 kids off my rec team invited to play and two went. I decided that to compete with the premier squads, I needed to offer somewhat the same plan. I had a good team and I felt that I had a good plan so we would compete even if we would not always (or ever) win many games. I wanted to play against select teams the next year so I decided we would take out lumps, get comfortable playing against bigger faster teams, and improve our speed of play. Which we did. I would contend we were playing as good or better soccer than most of the teams we played. However, due to size and strength constraints, we only won one game. But we were competing in each game. The kids enjoyed it. More of them were on the field at one time and for longer periods. They knew they were not necessarily expected to win but they went out and played hard every week. I think they are much better prepared to play at a higher level next year. I actually had one 10 year old on the team but he quit mid-season because he missed playing with his friends and kids his own age. On the other hand, I had one 8 year old that has been with me for 1.5 years and he did fine. In fact he is one of my best overall players.

I also played my daughter up for many years with mixed results. When she first started out she seemed too dominant for her age so we moved her up. She always held her own but this past season she played with her own age and enjoyed it. Didn't dominate but played and contributed. There is also a certain similarity with the other coaches comments in that at school you play against older kids until you are the oldest. Seems pretty standard in schools so what's the big deal in club.

RE: Playing Up a Year

edlongo — Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:47:22 GMT

In that situation now with my U10 daughter playing with a U11 team. She plays U10 with her town team (recreationally) but U11 with her club team. It happens that she is an older U10 player (her birthdate just made the backend of the age cutoff) so she is only a few weeks younger than some of the true U11 players on the older team. For that reason, we decided to give it a go, though both the coach and I are keeping close eyes on the situation to make sure that it remains a positive development experience for her. So far, so good. She has bonded with the older girls well (even competitive soccer is a highly social activity for girls!) and that is what we paid most attention to. She happens to be a strong player and, while she really enjoys playing with her U10 classmates recreationally - something we will never step away from, needs the challenge of playing with and against girls that provide a level of play that more closely matches her own.

All that being said, my personal belief is that for most players through U12 it makes the most sense to stay within your age groups. For boys, this may even be true up to U14 or until the player has physically matured to handle the size of the older age group. Size difference may not seem as significant at the U10 or under ages, but as they get older a 4-inch, 5-inch or greater height difference, or a 20 pound weight difference really does impact level of play. Our more skilled U13 boys, who have not yet reached their first puberty growth spurt cannot keep up with lesser skilled U14 boys that are twice their size. You may not see this when the U8 player first jumps up to U9, but eventually size can make a huge difference and even set the stronger younger player back a few steps.

RE: Playing Up a Year

soccergoods — Thu, 02 Oct 2008 11:07:16 GMT

Our club has a policy now where if there is a team for your age group you have to play in your own age group. My youngest played for my age group in the Under 7's ( two year up ) the year after he played again with the U7's ( one year up) following year finally he got to play in the U7's with his own coach and with kids of his own age. I have seen him play with older boys for three year and he outplays some of them, but other times he was lost on the pitch. I believe he had learned a lot from playing with older kids as you do need to be stronger to handle it. Not every kid is able to do so. He is happy with his team, but finds it very hard that no-one passes the ball like they do in the older teams. I keep on telling him it will come. He is a strong player and I believe this has been picked up from playing with older boys.

RE: Playing Up a Year

Gorecki — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 19:17:37 GMT

Certainly sounds like you have a frustrating situation. We're talking about 7,8,9 year old kids! These little ones play because most of the time it's fun...right? It certainly sounds like the sort of behavior that makes kids not want to play and quit. Even with making reference to 'competitive' play, these are developmental years...period! If anyone whose drive as a coach is to win-win-win at these ages, they're a bad coach. A lot of parents don't even understand this early on. This is the stuff that stunts a players development.

Calling up players when they're short? You mean for a game? If that is the case, as a parent I would pull my kid away. Actually had one situation back in the U8 years where a mystery player (not rostered) showed up for a game. As a result my kid didn't play, she was seriously hurt and quit playing for about a year. At that game the team was awarded trophies, she left hers on the table. Guess what I'm trying to say is just because they're kids doesn't mean they're stupid. And I would guess some of this is possibly related to your reasonings for having a not so positive experience as a kid.

I wish I had a real answer for you. All I can say is fight the club if appropriate and as for parents, educate them in the hopes they make the correct choices for their child. It's hard to explain to a parent that little Jonnie will likely not play for Man U. :ermm:

RE: Playing Up a Year

Gav — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 18:26:16 GMT

Gorecki,

I see your point and I generally don't have an issue with it for teenagers (my experience wasn't great but it wasn't a disaster either). But I can't say I'm in favour of it for kids under 10 - or even under 12.

I suppose too I have a personal axe to grind here because I'm dealing with it from a club politics standpoint now. In fact, it's even got to the point where the U9 coach wants to call up U8 players from my squad when he's short! So I'm fighting that battle too.

I would love to see stats on how many kids that do it under 10 return to their proper age level the following year. I just find there's a massive difference physically, emotionally etc... with kids at these young ages.

Lastly, I'll agree to your point that it often happens that kids play up a year because there's no competitve environment for them at certain ages. That is the case here in my club where competitve soccer doesn't start until U8. Most other places it is U7. So parents do seek it out and playing up is one solution, I suppose.

RE: Playing Up a Year

Gorecki — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 16:56:58 GMT

I believe this is entirely subjective. A couple of examples.

My middle daughter is 15 but plays on a U18 team. Why?...is she amazing? No. She pulls her weight but the reason is not for the sake of 'playing up' it's for the sake of 'playing relative'. She maybe 15, but she's a junior in high school. If she played club at her proper age group, she would already be in college by time those teams started even thinking about playing college showcases...so it's relative.

My youngest daughter. She's 13 and plays club for a U14 team. She could play up if she wanted without question. She is amazing and is also the high school varsity starting goalkeeper as a freshman, first in the schools history! But she chooses to stay with her relative aged club team..and that's completely okay even if she could play club U18 if she wants. For now, she's okay. ;)

So again, it's subjective, if the child is playing up because they want a more competative environment or better training. It's likely the club or team is not quality and the age group has little to do with it. Find a better environment. But as I have expressed there are good and relative reasons to play up.

Playing Up a Year

Gav — Sat, 27 Sep 2008 13:24:06 GMT

I'm curious to know people's opinions on this as it's become a hot button topic at my club. I find there's more and more kids playing a year above their regular age level. Usually it's a coach has recruited them to play or the parents have pushed for it.

I personally don't agree with a U8 playing U9 for example. As a coach I'm also dealing with my club's U9 coach poaching good U8 players before I even have a chance to see them! I've since managed to get a grip on it and invariably those that play up ultimately come back down. I have 2 kids now who played up and wanted to come back. They were skilled enough to handle it and both actually scored a few goals but the overall experience was not good according to their parents - both socially and from a coaching style perspective.

I've always felt the drawbacks of playing up (especially as a youngster) far outweigh any perceived benefits. I did it twice as a teenager in 2 countries and while I could hold my own, I can't say I enjoyed it - it was hard to fit in and the older kids had their cliques.

Any opinions/experiences/horror stories/fairy-tales... on playing up a year?